ant
approved
Posts: 642
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Post by ant on May 20, 2021 10:10:17 GMT
The script editing is very poor.
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Adam
approved
WARNED
Tired
Posts: 1,007
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Post by Adam on May 20, 2021 22:47:44 GMT
And covered in Spaghetti
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Post by johnsballs on Jun 19, 2021 17:46:17 GMT
krytietv is my favourite episode by far!!
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TaRDFC
Junior Member
VERY VERY WARNED
Posts: 25
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Post by TaRDFC on Jun 21, 2021 13:03:45 GMT
I do love spaghetti, but I always seem to spill it everywhere.
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Post by acehole on Nov 28, 2021 18:40:29 GMT
There should never be a definitive end to the show, no returning to Earth, no finding Kochanski, no riding off into the sunset.
In "Back To Reality" when they think their whole life has just been a video game, the attendant tells Lister "Getting Kochanski is Lister's objective for the game, you twonk!"
I think about this a lot in terms of how it relates to what, if any, final ending Red Dwarf should have, and why I generally enjoy her showing up as a flashback/ghost in Series 1 thru 6 vs becoming a regular cast member in 7-8.
I think the attendant is right.
The impossible quest for Kochanski is what drives Lister, in the early seasons especially. Wanting her hologram disk (even though he wouldn't be able to touch her), wanting to use the stasis leak to bring her back or, failing that, go back and die with her. She's how the psirens first bait him. Camile's "ideal form" was originally slated to be Kochanski (and is still listed in the credits as "Kochanski Camile"). There is no "sane" reason to hope, especially in the original continuity where they were never even a couple, she was just someone he crushed on and didn't dare talk to as much as he wanted. But still he goes on, clinging to the hope that there must be a way, and the alt-reality of Stasis Leak proves it to him. This, along with pushing Rimmer's buttons, are what preserve his will to live. [and on some level Lister knows/believes this himself, hence his hallucinating the game attendant's proclamation in the first place].
It's such a massive change to the tone of the show (in my opinion) to have her actually be there, being a real imperfect person instead of a perfect symbol of Lister's striving. Lister (and thus the show itself), is defined by a chase which is now over. So where does he, and the show, go from here? Series 7 and 8 are full of struggles to find a new answer that question, and the tendency of fans to not like those seasons as much suggests to me the struggle failed. I haven't seen 9 & onwards, but I know (and am not surprised) Kochanski got written back out to once again be beyond Lister's reach, restoring Red Dwarf to being The Four Loveable Losers In Space.
I think, if Red Dwarf is to have a definite end, Lister getting Kochanski for good is part of it. Or at least, if Lister ever does end up with Kochanski for good [on Fiji or otherwise], that has to be Red Dwarf's definite end. The odyssey is complete, at the point. Especially if it's a happy ending where Kochanski the person matches up closely enough with Kochanski the ideal/ghost Lister's been building up in his head all this time that they can be the couple he's always wanted them to be. Why would Lister keep adventuring? He's achieved "The Plan". Even having her reject him once and for all feels like the natural end (and perhaps a more appropriate end to Red Dwarf, as it'd be a hilarious anticlimax more in line with Red Dwarf's tradition of mocking the storytelling of more serious/straight Sci-Fi shows/films, which almost invariably have the hero "get the girl" in the end. "No, sorry, I just don't like you.")
Especially given that the show has now already fired that shot. Kochanski resurrection? Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, and it didn't go as well as Lister or the audience hoped.
It's interesting to think about how the original plan for Series 1 was to end with Hologram Kochanski showing up at the end of Confidence & Paranoia, but the strike led to them coming up with Me Squared and the Double Rimmers instead. It would have been such a different show.
And, I think, one that wouldn't (couldn't) have lasted as long.
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Post by acehole on Nov 28, 2021 18:47:37 GMT
and yeah, add me to the list of folks who eventually came to like FemHolly more than the original.
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Post by Nikki the Great on Nov 28, 2021 19:01:38 GMT
There should never be a definitive end to the show, no returning to Earth, no finding Kochanski, no riding off into the sunset.
In "Back To Reality" when they think their whole life has just been a video game, the attendant tells Lister "Getting Kochanski is Lister's objective for the game, you twonk!"
I think about this a lot in terms of how it relates to what, if any, final ending Red Dwarf should have, and why I generally enjoy her showing up as a flashback/ghost in Series 1 thru 6 vs becoming a regular cast member in 7-8.
I think the attendant is right.
The impossible quest for Kochanski is what drives Lister, in the early seasons especially. Wanting her hologram disk (even though he wouldn't be able to touch her), wanting to use the stasis leak to bring her back or, failing that, go back and die with her. She's how the psirens first bait him. Camile's "ideal form" was originally slated to be Kochanski (and is still listed in the credits as "Kochanski Camile"). There is no "sane" reason to hope, especially in the original continuity where they were never even a couple, she was just someone he crushed on and didn't dare talk to as much as he wanted. But still he goes on, clinging to the hope that there must be a way, and the alt-reality of Stasis Leak proves it to him. This, along with pushing Rimmer's buttons, are what preserve his will to live. [and on some level Lister knows/believes this himself, hence his hallucinating the game attendant's proclamation in the first place].
It's such a massive change to the tone of the show (in my opinion) to have her actually be there, being a real imperfect person instead of a perfect symbol of Lister's striving. Lister (and thus the show itself), is defined by a chase which is now over. So where does he, and the show, go from here? Series 7 and 8 are full of struggles to find a new answer that question, and the tendency of fans to not like those seasons as much suggests to me the struggle failed. I haven't seen 9 & onwards, but I know (and am not surprised) Kochanski got written back out to once again be beyond Lister's reach, restoring Red Dwarf to being The Four Loveable Losers In Space.
I think, if Red Dwarf is to have a definite end, Lister getting Kochanski for good is part of it. Or at least, if Lister ever does end up with Kochanski for good [on Fiji or otherwise], that has to be Red Dwarf's definite end. The odyssey is complete, at the point. Especially if it's a happy ending where Kochanski the person matches up closely enough with Kochanski the ideal/ghost Lister's been building up in his head all this time that they can be the couple he's always wanted them to be. Why would Lister keep adventuring? He's achieved "The Plan". Even having her reject him once and for all feels like the natural end (and perhaps a more appropriate end to Red Dwarf, as it'd be a hilarious anticlimax more in line with Red Dwarf's tradition of mocking the storytelling of more serious/straight Sci-Fi shows/films, which almost invariably have the hero "get the girl" in the end. "No, sorry, I just don't like you.")
Especially given that the show has now already fired that shot. Kochanski resurrection? Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, and it didn't go as well as Lister or the audience hoped.
It's interesting to think about how the original plan for Series 1 was to end with Hologram Kochanski showing up at the end of Confidence & Paranoia, but the strike led to them coming up with Me Squared and the Double Rimmers instead. It would have been such a different show.
And, I think, one that wouldn't (couldn't) have lasted as long.
Reading that I was like "Yeah Lister is basically just a hair sniffer with a creepy obsession with someone he barely knew". It was bad enough that he openly planned a wank for later over that page of Lolita where her step father got a boner and spaffed his pants when she was laid on his lap aged 12. Lister is gross. He needs to be stopped in his tracks before he just starts getting Kryten to give him robot hand jobs.
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Post by acehole on Nov 28, 2021 19:29:22 GMT
Reading that I was like "Yeah Lister is basically just a hair sniffer with a creepy obsession with someone he barely knew". It was bad enough that he openly planned a wank for later over that page of Lolita where her step father got a boner and spaffed his pants when she was laid on his lap aged 12. Lister is gross. He needs to be stopped in his tracks before he just starts getting Kryten to give him robot hand jobs. Too late. [see: Polymorph] I suppose that's why they did eventually change the backstory to "they dated for a little while but didn't quite work out". It's a little less pathetic that way.
[And a little less redundant, given Rimmer's liason with MacGruder was also originally pretty pathetic and was eventually changed to something more palatable as well.]
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Post by Nikki the Great on Nov 28, 2021 20:24:51 GMT
Reading that I was like "Yeah Lister is basically just a hair sniffer with a creepy obsession with someone he barely knew". It was bad enough that he openly planned a wank for later over that page of Lolita where her step father got a boner and spaffed his pants when she was laid on his lap aged 12. Lister is gross. He needs to be stopped in his tracks before he just starts getting Kryten to give him robot hand jobs. Too late. [see: Polymorph] I suppose that's why they did eventually change the backstory to "they dated for a little while but didn't quite work out". It's a little less pathetic that way.
[And a little less redundant, given Rimmer's liason with MacGruder was also originally pretty pathetic and was eventually changed to something more palatable as well.]
Yeah but like, daily. In front of the others. Whilst crying about Kochanski like the simp he is. Lister should be shot. Or thrown out into space. He's a flying predator with cum-encrusted clothing.
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